COLORADO, USA — Republican candidate and former state Rep. Lang Sias is challenging Democratic incumbent Dave Young for the role of Colorado treasurer. The pair took to the stage for a debate Wednesday, Oct. 19.
This will be the third in a series of six debates on 9NEWS.
Both candidates ran unopposed in their respective primaries.
Sias ran two unsuccessful campaigns to represent Senate District 19 and lost a GOP primary in the 7th Congressional District before being elected in 2016 to represent House District 27 for a full term. This came after winning an appointment a year earlier to fill a vacancy in the seat.
Sias is an attorney, former Navy fighter pilot and TOPGUN instructor. In 2018, GOP gubernatorial nominee Walker Stapleton picked Sias as his lieutenant governor. They lost to Democrat Jared Polis and his running mate Dianne Primavera.
Young was a schoolteacher for 24 years before entering politics. He also acted as state representative for House District 50, which encompasses Greeley. Young was appointed in 2011 before being elected in 2012 and reelected in 2014 and 2016. He then won the election for state treasurer in 2018.
The pair talked TABOR, education funding and inflation, agreeing on some topics and at odds on others.
See their answers to questions from moderators Kyle Clark and Marshall Zelinger below:
Inflation
Q to Sias: The first priority on your website is to fight inflation. The treasurer manages money. How does the state treasurer fight inflation?
Sias: “I’m running to be a champion for our taxpayers because the cost of living in Colorado has gone up so much. … I’ll mange the treasurer’s office in an efficient manner. The treasurer has increased the size of the manning there by almost 50% in three years. I think we can do better. Second, I will serve as a strong and independent voice in our public pension system, which is a serious liability for our state. Third, I will use the bully pulpit of this office to argue for cost-benefit analysis for the legislation that we pass because the regulations we’re passing have driven up costs on taxpayers.”
Q: What you’re saying is that he’s increased the manpower in his office and that has led to statewide inflation?
Sias: “Yes. What that does is anytime the state is reaching further into hardworking taxpayers’ wallets and family budgets to increase the size of the government, that’s taking money out of their pockets and it’s driving up the cost of living in our state.”
Q to Young: The Denver area’s inflation is now 7.7%. This time last year, 4.5%. Why shouldn’t that be a reflection of your work as state treasurer?
Young: “Prices are going up everywhere. This is a global situation. We’ve seen the pandemic and economic downturn, supply chain issues. It doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t pay attention to it. During the economic downturn, I started a CLIMBER small business loan program to address the needs of small businesses here in the state of Colorado. My belief is that when businesses are competitive, that they can drive down prices.”
Q: Because you hired more people in your office, did that cause a higher inflation rate?
Young's response: “No, it didn’t. We have a great staff in the treasury, but they were pretty under-resourced and overworked. … The No. 1 job of the treasurer is to make sure the taxpayers’ dollars are safe.”
Great Colorado Payback Audit
Q to Young: There was an audit before you took office that found some major problems with the unclaimed property program. You got that audit in July 2019 and you announced reforms to the program in November 2021. Why did it take more than two years to announce those reforms?
Young: “There was a 13,000-claim backlog when I took office, and shortly thereafter, we cleared that. We were doing a variety of things. The program under the previous treasurer had been paper-based, we moved to a technology solution, and it took some time to implement that. But we returned large amounts of unclaimed property.”
Q to Sias: Would you make any specific changes to how that program is being run?
Sias: “I was talking to an attorney a few weeks ago who came up to me as a representative of a local government, and she was complaining about the fact that the process for recovering for that local government – even a small amount of money – was very cumbersome and frustrating. Whatever is going on, there’s clearly some frustration. … What I will do is use the process management experience I have acquired in the military and in the private sector and take a good look at that program.”
TABOR
Q to Sias: Mr. Sias, if you had your choice without TABOR's requirements, should Coloradans also have a vote on a tax increase?
Sias: "Yes, they should, and on the refunds."
Q to young: Mr. Young, should tax increases always be put to a vote, regardless of TABOR?
Young: "Yes."
Q to Young: Mr. Young, your first year as treasurer in 2019, you encouraged voters to pass Proposition CC to let the state keep all future TABOR refunds. Voters rejected it. This year, in response to TABOR refunds getting sent to us earlier than normal, you have repeatedly said "This is a crucial time for us to get tax refunds back to taxpayers." Besides being politically advantageous in an election year, what got you to be pro-TABOR in three years?
Young: "Well, we know that prices are going up, and so we wanted to be sure that people had that money in their pockets...And for people in moderate to low-income family situations, they're struggling with rent, they're struggling with food...so we knew this was important to get this back to people...However, I will remind you that it [CC] was for education funding and for transportation funding...And so I always talk about the outcomes of TABOR...we have the lowest competitive salaries for teachers, you can't spend any time on the roads without seeing what the problems are, and I point back to TABOR as the problem that's causing that."
Q: But if that's your position, shouldn't you be saying 'I don't want to be giving you this $750 check, I don't want to be giving it back to you?'
Young: "No, not in a situation where we know the economy has turned. I think we should always look at the situations and make sure that we are addressing people's needs."
Q to Sias: Mr. Sias, if TABOR refunds continue to exist, how would you like to see them distributed? Similar to this year, where they came early and were equitable regardless of income level?
Sias: "My preference is that they reflect the taxes that people pay, but I frankly don't have much of an objection to the way they were distributed. My objection to this is, first of all, that my opponent is running ads trying to get people to vote for him on the basis of giving them money that in fact they were A. going to get anyway and B. that he tried to prevent from ever happening. I also have a very different view about...how the government should be able to reach into our family budgets and take money without our permission. I think getting that permission is important."
Q: If TABOR refunds continue to exist, should they be sent out early like they were this year?
Sias: "I have no problem with them being sent out early."
Education Funding
Q for Sias: Tell me what your issue is with the education.
Sias: "Well, I've been looking for a long time, serving on the education committee, at where the money goes, and a recent non-partisan study just came out that confirmed that over the last 14 years our per-pupil spending statewide...has gone up by 45%. But teacher pay has only gone up by 27%, and during that period we've been hiring district-level administrators at almost four times the rate that we're hiring teachers, and of course our student outcomes, as I'm sure you're well aware, are not good. Only 40% of our third graders are reading and doing math at grade level. So my point is, it is important that we judge ourselves not just on how much money we spend, but on how that money gets spent. And I want to see it go into the classroom and going to our hardworking teachers and to bring up those performance scores."
Q: Teacher salaries are dictated by local school districts, not by the state treasurer.
Sias: "This is true, however...what I wanna do is provide some transparency to our parents and to our legislators on what's happening with the money to see if we can't get more pressure applied to see that the money actually goes to the classrooms and the teachers...so they can raise those scores."
Young: I was a teacher for 35 years. I spent 25 of that in the K-12 classroom, also taught at CU Denver. I know education policy well, and I think we're throwing around a lot of numbers here, but at the end of the day, I know the fact is that our school systems are stretched thin. 80% of their budget is people, and when you have the lowest competitive salaries in the country, then you have a problem with attracting and retaining the top professionals that we need to have in front of our students."
School Vouchers
Q: Republican gubernatorial candidate Heidi Ganahl is proposing school vouchers for private schools and religious schools. Would you advocate for that?
Sias: “My focus has always been on school choice within the public school system. I’m not familiar with her proposal so I’ll stick to what I have focused on, but it has been for very robust school choice within the public school system. … I think when we’re looking at districts that have horrible performance and kids don’t have another choice, we need to investigate all possibilities. But my focus has always been within the public school system.”
Young: “Not in favor of it at all, but I know a lot of people want to have school choice. I actually helped to start a charter school in Greeley. … I understand deeply how to run a school and stand one up. Charter schools are public schools, and I think people sometimes forget that. But issue around adequate funding is a major, major issue for our state. The children are the lifeblood of our future, and if we underfund education, we sell our state short. I will always advocate for better funding for our public schools.”
PERA Divestment
Q for Young: This year, the public pension plan for employees divested $8 million in Russian-owned assets because of federal sanctions against that country. Russia isn’t the only bad actor on the international stage. Would you support divesting from, say, Saudi Arabia-based assets based on that country’s human-rights abuses?
Young: “The first vote I took as a member of the PERA board … was on a divestment policy. The divestment policy that I supported was that it is the legislature’s job to set that policy. … Let’s have a conversation about what the definition is of that bad actor. That’s the real conversation, but it’s where you have that conversation, too. The legislature is the right place to have that.”
Sias: “This is one of those areas where Dave and I are very closely aligned. My view is that divestment is something we should do very, very rarely because our primary responsibility is a rate of return for PERA members and for the taxpayers. I voted for a divestment measure back in 2016 because certain criteria were met. That is, first of all, that it’s done by the legislature and, second of all, that it is bipartisan.”
Divestment from Climate Change Companies
Young: I don’t know if he’s going to fall in line with the other Republican state treasurers. They are divesting from companies that are trying to deal with climate change and they’re only going to invest their state’s money in companies that deal in fossil fuels. Will you fall in line with that?
Sias: “You’ve heard me respond to this question before, and I have said no. I’m not going to divest from either fossil fuels or divest from renewable energy. I’m going to do what’s in the best interest of PERA members … and the state. … That is my fiduciary responsibility, and I’m going to follow it.”
TABOR Support
Sias: The 2019 Dave Young was in support of Proposition CC that would have gotten rid of our TABOR refunds. The 2022 Dave Young is running ads saying please vote for me because I’m giving you $750. My question is about the 2023 Dave Young. If you’re re-elected, can the voters count on you to not try to take that money away again?
Young: “I’m all about outcomes for our state, and right now, we have really poor funding for education, but it isn’t just education. It’s also infrastructure like water, affordable housing, mental health. Every aspect of our state’s budget is in great distress. As a result, people aren’t getting the essential needs. You advocate for returning Taxpayer Bill of Rights refunds to the most wealthy. I want to do it in a fair way. I also want to have a conversation of the outcomes we want to have as a state and the revenue that we need to have to get that done.”
CLIMBER Program
Q to Young: You facilitate the state's CLIMBER program; loans for small businesses. Unlike the federal PPP loans, none of these loans are being forgiven. As of your May 2022 report, nine companies had borrowed $2 million, and only three new jobs had been created from that. How is that a successful use of a loan program?
Young: "That number has actually increased. We're at about 248 jobs saved. And frankly it was the Trump era PPP money that actually flooded the market. No small business is gonna take a loan, even if it's below market rate like we were offering, if they can actually get a forgivable loan...and then we discovered because of the economic conditions that were changing that the market forces had swayed away...and [we] actually retooled the program that we're going to stand up again with better terms."
Q to Sias: Mr. Sias, would you reform or end the CLIMBER program if elected treasurer?
Sias: "I would take a very close look at it. I mean the bottom line is that the current treasurer has been portraying that program as a success, when in fact it cost the taxpayers a lot of money, over $11 million, to loan out to. That's not a good deal. And so the program has so far failed...the question is whether using another quarter billion dollars of taxpayer money is bests served in that fashion."
Closing Statements
Recap and fact check
9NEWS political debates
9NEWS is hosting six candidate debates ahead of the 2022 general election on Nov. 8. The full slate includes four statewide races and the two most competitive congressional races.
All of the debates will be livestreamed on 9NEWS.com, 9NEWS+ and the 9NEWS YouTube channel and will be available to watch afterward on those platforms.
The full lineup of debates is below:
- Thursday, Oct. 13, live at 6:30 p.m. – 8th Congressional District – state Sen. Yadira Caraveo (D) and state Sen. Barbara Kirkmeyer (R) .
- Tuesday, Oct. 18, during Next with Kyle Clark at 6 p.m., full debate online – attorney general – John Kellner (R), district attorney for the 18th Judicial District, and incumbent Phil Weiser (D).
- Wednesday, Oct. 19, during Next with Kyle Clark at 6 p.m., full debate online – state treasurer – former state Rep. Lang Sias (R) and incumbent Dave Young (D).
- Friday, Oct. 21, during Next with Kyle Clark at 6 p.m., full debate online – 7th Congressional District – state Sen. Brittany Pettersen (D) and Erik Aadland (R).
- Monday, Oct. 24, during Next with Kyle Clark at 6 p.m., full debate online – secretary of state – Pam Anderson (R), former two-term Jefferson County clerk, and incumbent Jena Griswold (D).
- Friday, Oct. 28, live at 7 p.m. – U.S. Senate – Sen. Michael Bennet (D) and business owner Joe O’Dea (R).
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